Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths

Subject: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Mon 12 Mar 2007 - 0:37

Hi Everyone,
I would like to start by thanking Carole for her welcoming message. About myself, I was born in Middleton in 1941 and emigrated to Australia with my wife and son in 1964.
I found this site by accident and as my Grandmother was a Smith I browsed through it and was intrigued when I saw a mention of a Lucy Whitehead/Smith posted by Dennis. She was my Grandmothers sister in law. I have traced my Smith family to John Smith born abt 1820 but then the trail becomes hazy. Abt 20 Johns in the 1841 Census. I will eventually find the correct one if I try try try again. I will eventually post my Smith family tree on the site when I get a little more info and figure out how to do it
Luv to all John

3-star-status Member Posts: 3359 Joined: 2006-11-09

Hi John,

I have searched for your John Smith in Lancashire... searched 5 years either side of 1820 ... and come up with 100 John Smith's all over Lancashire!

If you can give me a few more details as to where you think he would have been born and any other family names you may have on the 1841 it may help ... we may just find him, fingers crossed.

mattycat

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Mon 12 Mar 2007 - 23:03

Hi Mattycat
I'm a newby in using chat rooms so I don't know if this is the correct place to answer your posting. Please advise.
My John Smith was born in abt 1820 in Middleton Lancs according to the 1861 & 1881 census. He married Sarah Ann Bowker, also of Middleton, in the June Qtr of 1851. I don't have any info on Parents or siblings, I am hoping the 1841 census will help with this. I assume he is one of those registered in Ashton & Oldham district. I was going to slowly work my way through them but if you have ready access, any help would be appreciated

Regards John

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Mon 12 Mar 2007 - 23:23

Carole wrote:

:flower: Welcome John

Really glad you found us. Just read your message about your Smiths of Middleton area. I see that mattycat is already trying to help you with some stuff.............................
............... Wonderful!! to find your Lucy Whitehead in Dennis's tree, wasn't it!! do you have contact with Dennis already? Otherwise I can email him & direct him to your message here, if you like?

Chat again Smiley

Carole

Hi john

Mattycat is usually on during the day and im sure she will answer you tomorrow morning...we all where new to this chat thingy and if it needs moving to the correct board dont worry we can do it ....
and take carole up on her offer to contact dennis if you have a connection

Maxine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maxine Friendship~ Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Tue 13 Mar 2007 - 11:35

mattycat wrote:

Hello John,
I have just searched for Sarah Ann Bowkers birth/baptism so far ... this is what I have found...

Sarah Ann Bowker Baptised 19.8.1821 at Mottram in Longdendale Cheshire ... Parents John & Mary Bowker

I don't think that is far from the Lancashire border .. but check on that one.

Sarah Bowker baptised 7.2.1830 at Altham Lancashire .. parents John & Mary Bowker

I will search for John later (Smiths not as easy as Bowkers!!)

Carole wrote:

Hi John & mattycat,

Yes you're right matty. Mottram in Longdendale is close to Lancs/Cheshire Border - somewhere in between Ashton-u-Lyne & Hyde I think.

Altham is next to, or sometimes thought of as part of Accrington, E.Lancs.

Carole :shrug]:

mattycat wrote:

Hi again John,

I have searched for the marriage of John & couldn't find it but found a John married to an Ellen Bowker (that's not the one but I have parents names for that ...) 27.9.1818 and Father's John Smith & Edmund Bowker .. marriage at St Mary Blackburn ( Parish clerks records on line ...www.lan-opc.org.uk) .

Next for John's birth/baptism .. came up with 100! but none in Middleton.... but these are a few that I picked out ... don't think they are yours but?

John Smith. born 22.9.1819 .. bapt. 24.10.1819
Parents John & Jane Smith
at St. Mary the Virign West Derby Lancashire (near Liverpool)

John Smith bapt. 17.11.1820 at Warrington Lancashire
Parents John Smith & Betty Fellows.

I am sorry that I was not able to be more helpful

Hi Matty
Thanks for searching for me. John and Sarah were definitely born and married in Middleton. Their wedding was @ St Leonards Church in Middleton. Obviously I shall have to purchase a copy of their marriage certificate from the GRO in Southport to get info on their Fathers to enable me to go further. I've been able to find the ref. no's on LancashireBMD and Freebmd so will have to wait on snailmail. St Leonards has only published BMD records to about 1700 on the OPC website at the moment and they haven't changed for the last 12 months or so
John and Sarah had eight children between 1851 and 1871 and from the census records never moved house more than 50 yds.
Thanks again for all your help
Luv John

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Fri 23 Mar 2007 - 12:47

mattycat wrote:

John,

You can buy the certificates on line from Southport .. £7.00 Sterling quicker than writing and it usually gives an expected date for you to receive it.

I didn't think that I had found your family but it was no trouble to search .. sometimes we are lucky.

Welcome John

Nice to have another Australian on board, I have just come back from a holiday in Noosa, the Gold Coast and Melbourne.

Please feel free to add any topics to the Australia board and if you need any help just ask

Chellin

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Thu 26 Apr 2007 - 1:08

Here is a list of my Smith Ancestors
Amos Smith Father of John
Thomas Bowker Father of Sarah Ann

(1) 1 John SMITH, GG Grandfather
************************************
Birth: 1820, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 9 1887, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Spouse: Sarah Ann BOWKER, GG Grandmother Birth: 1830, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 12 1889, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Marr: 15 6 1851, St Leonard, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

Children:
Mary (1851-)
Walter (1854-1897)
Peter Henry (Died as Child) (1857-1864)
Elizabeth (Died as Infant?????) (1860-1864????)
Joseph (1863-)
John Thomas (1865-1905)
Edward (~1869-)
Alice (1871-)

(2) 1.1 Mary SMITH, GG Aunt
************************************
Birth: 9 1851, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(2) 1.2 Walter SMITH, G Grandfather
************************************
Birth: 1854, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Death: 9 1897, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Leah Henthorn WOLSTENHULME, G Grandmother
Birth: 1855, Saddleworth, Yorkshire, England.
Death: 6 1906, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Marr: 17 8 1874, St Leonards, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

Children:
Peter Henry (Died as Child) (1874-1886)
Elizabeth (Died as Child) (1876-1886)
John Samuel (1880-1907)
Martha Wilkinson (1884-1921)
Mary A (1887-)
Jane (1889-1924)

(3) 1.2.1 Peter Henry SMITH, G Uncle
************************************
Birth: 12 1874, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Death: 1886, Middleton, Lancashire, England

(3) 1.2.2 Elizabeth SMITH, G Aunt
************************************
Birth: 1876, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Death: 1886, Middleton, Lancashire, England

(3) 1.2.3 John Samuel SMITH, G Uncle
************************************
Birth: 5 1880, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Death: 12 1907, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Lucy WHITEHEAD
Birth: 1881, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Marr: 6 1905, St Leonard's, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(3) 1.2.4 Martha Wilkinson SMITH, Grandmother
************************************
Birth: 18 10 1884, Back Chapel St, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 1 1921, 5 Springbank Terrace Middleton
Spouse: William TURNER, Grandfather
Birth: abt 1882, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Death: 1 1941, 2 Oakdene Rd Moorclose Middleton
Marr: 21 8 1906, Oldham (Registrar Attended)

Children:
Mary Annie (Illegitimate) (1903-1979)
Rose Leah (1908-)
Annie
John Samuel (1914-1995)

(4) 1.2.4.1 Mary Annie TURNER, Aunt
************************************
Birth: 30 6 1903, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Death: 10 1979, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Spouse: William Stanley HOWELL
Birth: 19 3 1901, Prestwich, Lancashire, England.
Death: 19 6 1954, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Marr: 7 6 1921, St Michael's Church, Tonge cum Alkrington, Middleton, Lancashire, England

(4) 1.2.4.2 Rose Leah TURNER, Aunt
************************************
Birth: 1908, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Spouse: Phillip RODEN
Marr: ca 1927

(4) 1.2.4.3 Annie TURNER, Aunt
************************************
Spouse: Joseph SPENCE

(4) 1.2.4.4 John Samuel TURNER, Father
************************************
Birth: 26 6 1914, 37 Smethurst St, Oldham, Lancashire, England.
Death: 11 12 1995, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Marjorie LEWIS, Mother
Birth: 21 9 1916, 23 Wood Street, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 17 7 1990, Boundary Park Hospital, Oldham, Lancs, England
Marr: 4 11 1939, Middleton, Lancashire, England

Children:
John Lewis (1941-)
George Michael (Private)

(5) 1.2.4.4.1 John Lewis TURNER, Source
************************************
Birth: 22 6 1941, 81 Kenyon Lane, Middleton, Lancs, England
Spouse: Catherine HALL
Birth: 31 3 1941, Boundary Park Hospital, Oldham, Lancs, England
Death: 15 6 2000, Alfred Hospital, Prahran, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. ®7, Vic Death Cert 16069/2000
Crem: 21 6 2000, Springvale Crematorium, Victoria, Australia.
Marr: 31 3 1962, St Michael's Church, Tonge cum Alkrington, Middleton, Lancashire, England

(3) 1.2.6 Jane SMITH, G Aunt
************************************
Birth: 1889, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Death: 8 1924
Spouse: Charles Wallace JACKSON
Birth: 1889, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Marr: 9 1911, Oldham Registry Office, Oldham, Lancashire, England.

(2) 1.3 Peter Henry SMITH, GG Uncle
************************************
Birth: 1857, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 1864, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(2) 1.4 Elizabeth SMITH, GG Aunt
************************************
Birth: 1860, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 1864, Middleton, Lancashire, England

(2) 1.5 Joseph SMITH, GG Uncle
************************************
Birth: 1863, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Spouse: Mary Sadge CHEETHAM
Birth: 9 1861, Hyde, Cheshire, England.
Marr: 1883, Oldham Register Office or Registrar Attended

Children:
John (~1884-)
Amelia (1889-)
Fred (1891-)

(3) 1.5.1 John SMITH, 1C2R
************************************
Birth: abt 1884, Middleton Junction, Lancashire, England.

(3) 1.5.2 Amelia SMITH, 1C2R
************************************
Birth: 1889, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(3) 1.5.3 Fred SMITH, 1C2R
************************************
Birth: 1891, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(2) 1.6 John Thomas SMITH, GG Uncle
************************************
Birth: 1865, Middleton, Lancashire, England.
Death: 6 1905, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Henrietta BOOTH
Birth: 9 1865, Rhodes, Lancashire, England.
Marr: 1885, Oldham Registry Office, Oldham, Lancashire, England.

Children:
Ada (1887-)
Alice (1890-)
John (1899-)

(2) 1.7 Edward SMITH, GG Uncle
************************************
Birth: abt 1869, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

(2) 1.8 Alice SMITH, GG Aunt
************************************
Birth: 1871, Middleton, Lancashire, England.

3-star-status Member Posts: 3359 Joined: 2006-11-09

chellin2 wrote:

Hi John

Well you have been busy, lets hope someone is as lucky as you were and finds one of their family members on this thread.

Good luck with your research

Chellin

Carole wrote:

Hi John,

Apologies for the delay in responding to this. Thank you very much for posting the excellent & very clear list of your Smith & related surnames interests of Lancashire.........................
................ added your Username to Smith Chat's Usergroup:
Smith Project Lan-WRY-IoM .................
See you later, aligator wave

WOW John! ,

That was a great list, you have done very well with your Smiths .. if only we could have a list that long ..

Well done

mattycat

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Tue 8 May 2007 - 0:32

G'day Carole & Mattycat

Thanks for your kind comments. I wasn't going to post my Smiths list until everything was up to date and on the new site, but then I thought maybe someone out there was searching for info I had. I still have one or two unresolved connections still to be sorted out so this list may change slightly. (Elizabeth 1860 - 1864???? may not have been the one that died in 1864)

Recently received John Smith's wedding certificate showing his father as one Amos Smith a blacksmith and Sarah's father as Thomas Bowker, a fustian cutter, so the Roots grow deeper.

I ordered the certificate online as suggested on 19/4/07 and received it 2/5/07. Snailmail indeed. I was surprised to find it had a Zurich, Switzerland postmark and a Basel return address.
As Alice said "Curiouser and Curiouser"

John

3-star-status Member Posts: 3359 Joined: 2006-11-09

Hi John,

When you order on line they give you a date they expected to send it out, all does depend on demand ... but Zurich?? the post drives us all mad at times.

Better luck next time and the good news it was the correct certificate .. nothing worse than waiting in anticipation only to find it's not your family.

mattycat

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Tue 8 May 2007 - 20:30

Yes, congratulations on eventually receiving the correct certificate John!! Very Happy

Carole

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Sun 10 Feb 2008 - 0:06

Hi Everyone

I decided to give my search for Smiths a rest and switched to my Maternal side of the family, to find to my dismay that my Grand fathers third eldest sister (my Great Aunt Hannah) had married a James Smith. Woe is me. Alas & Alack I'm surrounded on all sides by Smiths.
A possible James Smith was born in Middleton in 1877 to Thomas Benton Smith of Royton and Betty Walker of Middleton (Married @ St Leonards Church, Middleton in 1875)
The search resumes.

John

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Sun 10 Feb 2008 - 22:07

Hiya John,

Well what else did you expect...LOL they are all around us.

I am surrounded by Fairhurst' on both sides so i understand..And I was a Jones, with Smiths!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maxine Friendship~ Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Sun 10 Feb 2008 - 23:20

Hi Maxine

You are so right, Hannah's eldest sister married a James Henry Price Jones. (what a name to hang on to a boy) Why couldn't our ancestors have been more original and used unique names, it would make it so much easier.

John

Subject: Re: Middleton (M24 ***)Smiths Mon 11 Feb 2008 - 11:12

Hiya John,

Thanks for the update................................
...............I have a similar occurrence in my Smith family too. My great-great grandad James Smith (of Burnley) married Mary Shackleton (born Harewood, WRY). I began to research my Mary's SHACKLETON family of Harewood - to find that her mother's maiden name was Sarah SMITH!! (married William Shackleton) Haaa haaa - so same for me - more SMITHs to research!!..............

Carole wave