William H.Smith b.c1836 England/to America c1842

18 Oct 2006, Carole wrote:

:flower:

Quote:

Can you help Bev find her William H.Smith?

Bev's ancestor, William H. Smith, emigrated to America around 1842, at the young age of approximately 6 years or so, presumably with his parents & any siblings. It is believed that William H. was born on the 25 December, 1835 & it is known that he was born somewhere in England.

(Yes!! she knows - "needle in a haystack" - BUT......) Bev has now discovered a 6 year old William Henry Smith recorded in a Passenger Lists Index.

Bev writes - "He is departing from Liverpool and is going to Philadelphia PA. on the Ship Thomas P Cope, dated April 15,1842." Other members of the family have not yet been identified.

Bev has been busy attempting to eliminate from her search, families with young sons named William H. Smith on the 1841 England Census, county by county. At present, she is following the possibility that a family living in Cheetham, near Manchester, whose 1841 Census Data is given below, could be her family. On a positive note, this same family have not so far been found on the 1851 Census for the same area.

1841 Census

District: Chorlton,Manchester & Salford: HO107/0579/11.f5
Shaw Street, Cheetham, Lancashire

nb: "Yes" or "No" whether born in this county, Lancashire.

Smith George 35 Warehouseman No
Smith Harriett 30 No
Smith Joseph 15 No
Smith Mary 12 No
Smith David 10 Yes
Smith Harriett 8 Yes
Smith William Henry 6 Yes
Smith Sarah Ann 4 Yes

If you have any information about this family, which might help Bev either eliminate this William H. Smith from her search, or strengthen the possibility that this is the correct family, any help or suggestions would be appreciated. (Carole on behalf of Bev. May 2006)
_____________

In view of the possibility of the Cheetham connection - A copy of the above message is also copied to our - "Smith of East & South-East Lancs" Board

A Note to Bev - Oct 2006.............
Bev, when you arrive here at the new Forums - hope you'll update us on how you're getting on with this search. Any more progress? Look forward to hearing any news. Thanks, Carole Wink

HI Carole:
Just got into your NEW site, very impressive. I'm still looking for my William H Smith. b England 1835 Either 25 OCT or 25 DEC. Have very strong conclusion that fathers Name was either John or Daniel. I have gone through ALL the 1841 census for a family with a Willaim and Daniel or John, Now I need to check 1851 and see if these families are still in England. William came to the US in 1842. I found this out by census taken in 1860 inthe USA. He named his first son John, First daughter Agatha, second sons and daughter were named after his wife's father. Then his next son he would have had named after his side was Daniel. I am taking shots in the dark here hoping that someone can shed some light on the matter. I think his father may have been a farmer becuase that is the occupation of william and ALL of his sons.
Merry Christmas
Bev

Carole wrote:

:santa: Hello Bev, Its good to know you've found your way to this Topic.
(See also "Welcome Forum" - there's a "Welcome" for you there too!)

tiggerpunt wrote:

.....I have gone through ALL the 1841 census for a family with a Willaim and Daniel or John, Now I need to check 1851 and see if these families are still in England.

Bev, if you have any other 1841 Census possibilities in Lancashire, W.R. Yorkshire or Isle of Man, that you're trying to follow up on the 1851....
would you like to post the 1841 Data, & someone might just already have the 1851 Data for the same family/s or household/s to help you to eliminate.

In either case - please do keep us informed - its interesting!!

Have a Very Happy Christmas Day.

Carole

Hi tiggerpunt,

I see you came on today so i thought i would ask how you are going?
Have you found any answers yet.. can we be of any help?

Maxine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maxine
Friendship~
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Maxine & Carole,

Going to take your advise & see if any NEW thing comes up.
William H Smith, my g grandfather, born England Dec 25 1835. Imm. to US at 6 years of age in 1842. I've found a William coming to the US in 1842 aboard the Thomas P Cope, but with NO parents. This William landed in Phildelphia Pa in 1842. I've found NO record for him until 1860 in the US census. He named his first son John, second son was named after his wife's father, (Simon) second son was named Danile. SO, this is a big assumption, I could be wrong, that his fathers name may have been john or Danile, Other sons were named George Erven, Charles Edward, and William H jr.
I wish I knew more. But thats all the (for sure) things I have on him.
thanks for ANY help.
Trying to learn to get around on the NEW site, so bare with me.
Bev

3-star-status Member Posts: 3409 Joined: 2006-11-09

mattycat wrote:

Hi Bev

Lovely to see you on the site and Welcome from a wet Monday Morning in Lancashire. Just give me a few hours and I will search and see if I can find anything for you .. no promise of success though!
Please keep in touch

Mattycat

Hi again Bev,

I have had a look at my B.I.V.R.I CD's but not found anything on William Henry Smith (not all Baptisms are on there) but I have searched the I.G.I for you and found a marriage of George & Harriet (although spelt Harriat) and then possibly her birth!

See what you think

Marriage
16.10.1825 at Cathedral Manchester
George Smith to Harriat Broadbent
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Birth/ Baptism
Harriet Broadbent (notice the different spelling) born 17.4.1803 and Baptised 29.5.1803 at St. Michael
Hurst Brook Ashton Under Lyne LancashireParents Joseph Broadbent and Sally Buckley (possibly Sarah)

I hope this is some help to you, do let me know what you think.

Regards Mattycat

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Smith, Nuttall, Ingham,McDermott and more

so near and yet so far

Mattycat.
Thanks for the info. I have a question for you. I think I may have found some siblings for William, there are 2 othere SMITH children coming to the US on the Thomas P Cope. If I give you the names of theses children, could you check to see if there is a connection with this Harriet and George. William indeed DID name one of his sons George. OH THESES SMITHS. lol like finding a needle in a haystack.
Bev

Hi Bev nice to see you back and i quite often put my stuff down, i've been making my smith info for Carole to put on the site an i realised that i got some certificates back in june last year but i havent even put the info on the computer Embarassed

.

But yes we are here to help

Maxine

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maxine
Friendship~
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Carole wrote:

Hiya tiggerpunt & mattycat,
Just catching up with things. Interested to know - did you find there might be any connection between the other Smith children on the Thomas P Cope Passenger list?

The George & Harriet family from the 1841 Census could be a possibility couldn't they? as they don't seem to be on the 1851 Census - unless I've missed them.

Wish we could find William's Baptism. Talk again soon,
Carole wave

Hi Group, Having a hard time learning to make a NEW POST. Hope I did it right, thanks to Mattycat.
I have a favor. Is there anyone who could look up a Birth for me for William H Smith? born either Oct or Dec 25 1835. I know there is a site for England births of 1837 and later, but not the earlier date of 1835. He came to the US in 1842. He named his first son John, so his fathers name MAY have been John. His second son was named after his wife's father Simon, his third son was named Daniel, so his fathers name may have also been Daniel. His first daughter was named Agatha, I don't know if his mothers name would have been Agatha or not. I've found a William H Smith coming to the US in 1842 aboard the Thomas P Cope but with NO parents.
Also found William H Smith living in a orphanage in Philedelphia in 1850. Also found a William H Smith, right age in 1850 Census with parents John and Rachel, all born in Wales. Another census in another county has a William H right age etc with parents Daniel and Mary also born in Wales.
That's all I have for now. still looking thanks for ANY help
God Bless
Bev

3-star-status Member Posts: 3409 Joined: 2006-11-09

Hi Bev,

I am glad that you could follow my instructions.

I will have another look for you, earlier I did try to look for William's baptism. Do you have any idea which County of England he would have been born in? the 1841 usually says eg. " Lancashire" or "Yorkshire" etc It would give me a better idea of where to search.

There are so many William Smiths .... Laughing

my own Grandfather was called William Smith ... no relation!

Lets see also what other members come up with Bev.

mattycat

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Smith, Nuttall, Ingham,McDermott and more

so near and yet so far

Carole wrote:

Hiya tiggerpunt & mattycat,

I'm just re-capping on the possibilities you already have tiggerpunt.

On the 1841 Census for Lancashire - the only Wm H Smith found, correct age - was the one in data in first message in this Topic thread:

District: Chorlton,Manchester & Salford: HO107/0579/11.f5
Shaw Street, Cheetham, Lancashire
Parents George 35 Warehouseman, & Harriett 30,
& eldest 2 children, Joseph 15, Mary 12
All above shown as "no" not born in Lancashire.

NB: adults ages usually rounded down to nearest 5 years on the 1841 Census - so ages of parents could have been
George age between 35-39, Harriett age between 30-34
Eldest child Joseph age 15 = born c 1825/26

But the 4 younger children all shown as "yes" born in Lancashire....
David 10, Harriett 8, William Henry 6, & Sarah Ann 4.
(for future ref: there could be a birth certificate available for Sarah Ann - if she was born July onwards 1837)

I couldn't find the above family on the 1851 Lancashire Census.

mattycat found in the IGI....
Marriage
16.10.1825 at Cathedral Manchester
George Smith to Harriat Broadbent

This marriage could fit in OK with the 1841 Census data above.
mattycat found this Harriatt's Christening in Ashton-under-Lyne.

Ashton-under-Lyne in Lancashire but right on the Lancashire/Cheshire border. A lot of the people who lived in the nearby Cheshire villages did use Ashton St.Michaels as the area's mother church. So it is possible that this Harriatt was born in Cheshire (only a speculation in view of the 1841 Census data - "no" not born in Lancs)

About the ones you have found in the 1850 USA Census....
Born in Wales...

William H Smith, right age, 1850 Census
with parents John and Rachel, all born in Wales.
(Did you mean this is in Philedelphia? & if so - would this make sense?)

Another census, another county, William H, right age etc
with parents Daniel and Mary also born in Wales.
(is this the 1850 Census again tiggerpunt?
& Is William H shown as born in Wales as well as his parents?)

Have you got later USA Census Data for William ?1860 - 70 etc?
and if so, is he shown on those as born England? or Britain?

Carole wrote:

PS; Sorry Tiggerpunt - yes I've just realised you have got the USA 1860 Census Data for William - so does this show born England?
& - am I correct that the Ship Thomas P.Cope 1842, sailed from Liverpool?

The child William H. of correct age on the passenger list 1842....
appearing to be travelling alone with no parents.....
the child you found in the Philadelphia orphanage seems a possibility for the William H. travelling alone?

Is there any way you can get access to records for the Philadelphia Orphanage for 1842-1850?

Have you got access to the full passenger list for the ship on which the young William H. Smith seemed to be travelling alone? If so - are there many other children who could also be orphans?

Just more questions for you there tiggerpunt & probably all you've been asking yourself. But just needed to re-think it all.

Keep us informed & if we find anything in the meantime - we'll certainly let you know.

Carole wave

Carole & Mattycat

to try to answer your questions RE: William and the census. The 2 I found that had parents listed, were both in the state of Pennsylvania, different Counties. Both of these were in 1850 and both parents were born in Wales as was William. The single William I found was living in a Philedelphia orphanage and for the life of me, I can't find that list, still looking. There was a Francis Smith that was on the same ship: Thomas P Cope coming at the same date and leaving from Liverpool, and I need to see if this Francis was also in the orphanage. William first shows up as an adult in the 1860 census in the US, being married and having 2 children, John and Agatha.

Smith
15 Apr 1842
4
Male
Liverpool
Great Britain and Ireland
Ship Thomas P. Cope

Francis Smith
15 Apr 1842
7
Male
Liverpool
Great Britain and Ireland
Ship Thomas P. Cope

William Smith
15 Apr 1842
6
Male
Liverpool
Great Britain and Ireland
Ship Thomas P. Cope

These are ALL the Smiths coming to the US in 1842 on the Thomas P Cope, NOtice, they are ALL young boys with NO parents listed.

I am NOT giving up, he has to be somewhere.

love ya
Bev

Tiggerpunt. Just a thought but as William was only 6 yrs, how could he pay his passage? Maybe he was taken on as a member of the crew, cabin boy maybe? It might be worth checking the ships records if available. No, forget that idea if there were 3 children. It could be they were orphans and travelling with a guardian. Was there a history of orphans being sent to the States at that period ?

Love to all.
Daz.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My family are like stars in the night sky of my life.
Always there at the end of the day.
The light of their love forever constant as the Northern star.
Safely guiding me home.
Dreams are the realities of tomorrow.
Everyone is in tune with the spirits of their ancestors. Unfortunately some are tone deaf.
Copyright. Daz.2008.

Hiya Bev,

How's it going? Was just wondering if you'd found the Philadelphia Orphanage List yet where you found the possible William, or if you're needing anything looking up at the moment - if we can possibly help?

Also wondered if you'd checked out the Olive Tree site - as that has a lot of databases that could be of interest for you to explore, if not already? - including transported orphans, etc........ At -

OliveTreeGenealogy.com Ships' Passenger lists, Naturalization Records, Palatine Genealogy, Canadian Genealogy, American Genealogy, Native American Genealogy, Huguenots, Mennonites, Almshouse Records, Orphan Records, church records, military muster rolls, census records, land records and more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carole, Smith Project/Smith Chat Admin
Nothing is too small to know, and nothing too big to attempt (William Van Horne)

Hi Bev!

I realise it is a long time since you were looking for your W H Smith but I have joined quite recently and wondered if I could throw any light on the matter.

In my family there is a William Smith who married Sarah Green 28 April 1817 at Bunbury Cheshire England.
They had a large family:
John, Elizabeth, Ann, James, Sarah, Mary and Martha (there may have been more born later) all born before 1828 at Hanmer, Flint Wales ( this place is actually near Whitchurch ie 'detached').
The whole family, apart from the daughter Sarah who married in England, went to USA in 1840s. They were related to the Smiths of Beeston Nr Bunbury Cheshire and I am now in contact with one of their descendants in USA.

If you think this is of any relevance to you at all please let me know and perhaps we can take it further.

Cheers Gillian wave

Hi Gillian & Bev,

That's interesting Gillian - wouldn't it be great if we discovered that Bev's William belonged to your Smith family!!

Bev - I've just answered your query about how to post a photo of William
(ooh look forward to that Very Happy

)
here's the info >>>Inserting Images in your Posts>>>
Hope that helps - if not - let me know & will try again.

Carole good stuff!!

Gillian
My william was born dec 35 1835 SOMEWHERE in England according to the census records here in the US in 1860. He says he came to the US in 1842, I find NO record of him in 1850, but he does show up in the 1860 census with a wife and 2 children, John and Agatha.
He has been a real mystery man.
Bev

Last edited by on Tue 5 Feb 2008 - 15:56; edited 1 time in total

Hi Bev

Just been tidying up this thread a bit. Deleted some "no longer needed chit-chat stuff" so can get back to basics! good stuff!!

Reflecting on your notes about the children who travelled alone......
the list you posted, included ....

Quote:

William Smith, 15 Apr 1842, 6, Male, Liverpool,
Great Britain and Ireland Ship Thomas P. Cope
These are ALL the Smiths coming to the US in 1842 on the Thomas P Cope, NOtice, they are ALL young boys with NO parents listed.

Quote:

Also found William H Smith living in a orphanage in Philedelphia in 1850. Also found a William H Smith, right age in 1850 Census with parents John and Rachel, all born in Wales. Another census in another county has a William H right age etc with parents Daniel and Mary also born in Wales.

Are you any nearer with this Bev? Is it still looking as though William & possibly siblings were orphans sent to North America?

I see above that I posted a link to the Olive Tree Databases Site,
but can't find anything on this thread about the British Home Children Site, so just in case & if not already - here it is........
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~britishhomechildren/

Even if William and/or his siblings are not listed there in the Registry, it could be that the online list isn't yet completed & I'm sure there's a facility for posting enquiries via that site.

A slight diversion - about the image of William that you posted on the
>> image practice thread here >>
Do you want that to be moved to this Topic? or is that just a thumbnail and you have a bigger version of it, I'm wondering? Very Happy

Hope you'll call in soon with an update for us Bev

Carole wave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carole, Smith Project/Smith Chat Admin
Nothing is too small to know, and nothing too big to attempt (William Van Horne)