Sydney H Smith b?c1890/m Edith Watkins/emi Canada c1923

hello
I'm a smith that can't seem to find her ancesters!!!! This is what I know about my grandfather smith. His name was Sydney harry Smith --I don't know if he had any brothers but I do know he had 3 older sisters, much older....I think there was a 20 year difference from his youngest sister to him. He married Edith Iris Watkins and moved to Canada around 1923 and never talked about his family. I have heard that Edith's brother tried to locate her after the war--apparently there was a personal taken out in the london times seeking edith. She never responded back (she had a terrible childhood). Any infor would be much appreciated. bebberbe:D

maxine wrote:

Hi there bebberbe,
Thank you for your post.
Have you got any certificates and do you know where he was born and his date of birth.

No i don't -- I think sydney was born around 1890 and edith was 11 years younger so around 1901 thanks bebberbe

maxine wrote:

Hi Bebberbe
ok that helps to narrow it down and do you know the town or area?

For S H Smith
1891 Shoreditch, London
1891 Ecclesall Bierlow, Derbyshire,

abt 1890 - St Erme, Cornwall, England
abt 1890 - Bristol
and there are many more

But there is only one showing for

Name:
Iris Edith Watkins

Year of Registration:
1902

Quarter of Registration:
Apr-May-Jun

District:
Wolverhampton

Could this be her?

and on FreeBMD there is this

Births Jun 1902
Watkins Iris Edith -Wolverhampton 6b 638

Hope this helps

Carole wrote:

Hi Maxine & bebberbe,

This is going to be a difficult one isn't it - unless their marriage can be traced, which would be a good start.

bebberbe - were Sydney Harry and Edith Iris definitely from England,
or "UK" - ie: could they have been from Wales, Scotland or Ireland?

If definitely England - have you any idea at all which part of England - roughly? eg: north or south? What sort of accents did they have? Any favourite places in England that they talked about? London? Manchester? others?

You mentioned that Sydney didn't talk about his family except that he had 3 much older sisters - one of them about 20 years older than he. No idea of their names then, have you?

Were any of Sydney and Edith's children born in the UK before they emigrated?

Any indication from the names of Sydney and Edith's children as to what their own siblings or parents names might have been?? Just a long shot - but worth considering everything.

Really need their marriage record firstly. Anyway get back to us bebberbe, won't you. We'll continue to help if and when we possibly can.

Carole

this is all i know---

edith iris watkins (iris edith) had 1 brother, her father was a conductor of an orchestra (not a good one). He had an affair and left with his sweetheart. When edith was young I think about 9 her mother died of a brain tumor. Edith and her brother were separated to stay at different relatives. Her brother had a good life and she did not. she went to a relative that own a pub and had to work hard and was blamed for anything her cousins did. At a young age she left and went to work in a factory. Later she became a servant in the smith's household. She and sydney elloped and as a wedding present was given a trip to canada. Once here they sold their return ticket and staid.

Sydney harry smith was a mid life baby, his youngest sister was about 20 years older than him. His father was either harry or sidney not too sure.

I think edith went to london to work as a servant and
I think she was from warwickshire...

hope someone can help. bebberbe

Subject: finding sydney smith Thu 18 Oct 2007 - 4:33

:hot:

:ck-sad: here i go

Edith iris watkins had one brother, when they were young their father had an affair and left with her. I think he was a conductor of an orchestra (not very good). They went from living a good life to a terrible life. When edith was about 8 or 9 her mother died of a brain tumor. Edith and her brother were sent to different relatives. Her brother had a good life and edith had a terrible one. She lived with relatives who owned a pub and had to work hard...her cousins always got her in trouble by doing things and blaming her. She left when she could and worked in a factory for a couple of years---
then left for london and became a servant.

I think she worked in sydney's fathers house. Sydney had 3 sisters the youngest sister was about 20 years older then him (mid life baby). His father's name was either sidney or harry.

Sydney and edith eloped and as a wedding present they were given a trip to canada. Once they arrived they sold their return tickey and staid.

I think Edith was from Warwickshire and sydney from london. I could be wrong--both could have been from warwichshire ....hope someone can help ...thank you

I also remember that after the war her brother had a personal add in the London times looking for her. SHe didn't respond because he never helped her and could have.

maxine wrote:

Bebberbe i have moved this here to this Other Counties of ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES board and a copy to the North America Board > SMITH & Related Surnames(emig)

can you give any names of the brothers and sisters for either of them?

Carole wrote:

Hi again bebberbe and Maxine,

hope you don't mind me interupting here - but I have a list of births & another couple of queries that sprung to mind!! good stuff!!

bebberbe - from what you say - it looks then as though Sydney Harry Smith was from London - and so that should narrow it down in seeking out his birth record. But of course the marriage record is needed as well, in order to be sure it matches the same Sydney Smith birth. But I note that you say they eloped to get married - so in that case, the marriage could have been anywhere in the UK, is that right?

Noted below from the freebmd database, some births for London & close-by Districts (noted Districts 1, 2 and 3) circa 1890.
SMITH Sydney Harry (& close variants for Harry)

BUT - you might also want to do another freebmd search yourself for the other possible spelling for Sydney = Sidney

Sep-Dec 1885 Smith Sydney Harry Lewisham 1d 1142
Mar-Jun 1887 Smith Sydney Harold Croydon 2a 239
Jly-Sep 1889 Smith Sydney Henry Watford 3a 579
Jly-Sep 1889 Smith Sydney Henry G Pancras 1b 65
Sep-Dec 1890 Smith Sydney Harry B Fulham 1a 266 ??closest :ck-smile:
Jan-Mar 1891 Smith Sydney Harold Edmonton 3a 429
Mar-Jun 1891 Smith Sydney Harold S Woolwich 1d 1296
Jan-Mar 1892 Smith Sydney Harold Hitchin 3a 520
Jan-Mar 1892 Smith Sydney Herbert Maidstone 2a 741
Jly-Sep 1892 Smith Sydney Hamm? Hackney 1b 463

bebberbe - Do you know for sure that Sydney & Edith/Iris definitely married in UK before they emigrated, or is it possible they could have married once they arrived in Canada around 1923 (the date you mentioned)?

One more query :ck-wink: - have you got any records about their emigration at all? Otherwise, it might be a good idea to do a Passenger Lists search.
To discuss this - probably better on our "Brit Emigrants" Board - where Maxine has put a copy of your notes
>> Sydney H Smith & Edith Iris Watkins to Canada c1923 >>

We'll chat again. Keep in touch. wave

maxine wrote:

Well i did wonder that one Carole as well about being married as i spent most of yesterday on my account and i could not find a marriage between them and i did wonder whether Edith Iris changed arround her name as there where no births around the time suggested for a Edith Iris abut there was for Iris Edith. I also search for a sydeny Henery but there where so may for the time of birth.

I wonder if you could get a copy of the advert from the London times.

It would help if we knew the siblings names and then cross reference them to possible parents.

thank you for helping me

What I heard was they got married and because of it they were given a trip to canada as a wedding present. In those days a trip to canada usually meant stay there. I do think I got the dates mixed up on their immigrations to canada -I think they came over in 1920-1921--their first child was bourn in 1921 in canada. They never talked about their past only bits here and there. I don't know the names of his sisters. My grandfather just let it slipped once to my mom, my father never even knew about them. A lot of secrets and silence....bebberbe

Subject: harry sydney smith Sun 20 Jul 2008 - 15:16

Carole wrote:

Hi bebberbe,

Maxine might be back to chat to you again later - but in the meantime...........
Your story about your grandparents Sydney and Iris/Edith is interesting, isn't it? I do hope their marriage record can be found, then you can move on to tracing their British ancestors.

Quote:

A lot of secrets and silence

Yes, and I think that makes it all the more interesting!! and more of a challenge. One of my family lines was like that - and it was doubly fantastic when I found out who they were and where they were from, etc!! So don't give up!!

So far - it's appearing that these births for Iris/Edith and Sydney Harry are probables??..................

Maxine found this, which is the only one any of us can find for correct name/correct date........

Quote:

Births Jun 1902
Watkins Iris Edith -Wolverhampton 6b 638

Wolverhampton Reg District in Staffordshire, which neighbours Warwickshire (Midlands Counties) where you think Iris/Edith might have been from? See Map on our Topic >> Links for STAFFS, WARWICKS, WORCS Research >>

and if Sydney was from London, as mentioned above...

Quote:

Sep-Dec 1890 Smith Sydney Harry B Fulham 1a 266 closest :ck-smile:

Could be worth a search of the 1891 and 1901 London Census for the family of this Sydney Harry??

See you later.
Carole Very Happy

PS: bebberbe -
you're now in the Green Usergroup >> Smith - Other UK & Ireland >>
& so your name now displays in green.

Maxine wrote:

OK then beberbe i will have another look................ Maxine

On North America Board related topic, bebberbe wrote:

I do believe they came to canada 1920 not 1923 bebberbe

Feb 2008, maxine wrote:

Hiya Bev
I have been having a think about this today.
Do you have the death certificates for Edith and Sydney?
As these would give you the birth dates for them. Then maybe we can look for the marriage certificate. knowing we have the correct bithday.

Have you tried the link on the portal

Canadian Immigration & Naturalization Records

July 2008
:ck-hrrmm: Still looking for my relatives---I think I know his birthday--Harry sydney smith went by his second name and I do believe he was born on Jan. 20th, 1890--any help I'd appreciate it. I do believe I've found my grandma thanks to all your help....beverley
-----------------------------------------

Hi Beverley,

Quite a long time no speak - so its great to hear from you.
I'll have to go back to find your old topics to be reminded about where you were previously up to with the search for Harry Sydney. Off top of my head I'm thinking you didn't know yet which part of Britain he had migrated from, but please correct me if I'm wrong about that???? Anyway - from what you say here, it does sound as though you've been making some good progress!!

Have you checked the GRO Births Indexes yet Beverley, to see if you can find the District of birth registration for Jan-March Quarter 1890 for Harry? if not - try freebmd first in case its already transcribed on that database.... http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Chat again soon wave

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carole, Smith Project/Smith Chat Admin
Nothing is too small to know, and nothing too big to attempt (William Van Horne)

Subject: seeking s.h smith Wed 8 Apr 2009 - 4:41

still looking for my grandfather smith--sydney harry smith born 1890-1891 jan 22. Married edith iris smith born 1902 wolverhampton? any help would be much appreciated bebberbe

Hi Beverly,

Good to hear from you. Have now merged your previous topics about Sydney and Edith Iris, as you can see above, along with your new message today. Tidied up the original information you posted by putting mine and Maxine's old posts into "quotes". So it makes it a lot easier for everyone to read through the interesting history you already posted.

It's the marriage you need isn't it? before you can progress any further. You told us previously that it's believed that Sydney and Edith Iris eloped, so assuming their marriage could have taken place anywhere. What about Gretna Green in Scotland? (the famous place for elopements)

Will have another look at this again after the Easter hols.

Thanks for keeping in touch & we'll chat again.

Carole Very Happy