The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol

Subject: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Fri 20 Jun 2008 - 14:05

Today's topic is a bit different from earlier postings. It's intent is to generate discussion of events impacting the world’s economy. Please let me know if this type posting is of interest.
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Gas (petrol) is selling for a few cents over $4 per gallon. I believe its price in the UK is roughly $8/gal. (Note, principle difference in price is due to taxes.) Crude oil on the open market is around $135 per barrel. The increase in price for petroleum products is affecting the world’s economy. The specter of inflation is on the horizon, hunger is on the rise (corn diverted to ethanol production), and jobs are at risk.

I believe the functions driving the cost of oil is demand, speculation, and market manipulation. Demand is driven by increase use by China and India. Speculation is reflected by the huge amounts of money moving into commodity contracts, and market manipulation resulting in limitation on developing alternative energy sources. These functions contribute to cost increases as follows: demand 50%, speculation 20%, and market manipulation 30%.
What are your thoughts?

Americans are beginning to question longstanding US policy limiting US crude oil production. America imports the major portion of oil needed for US consumption. . There are 75 billion barrels of known oil reserves declared off-limits by Congress. This is the equivalent of 20-years of imported oil from sources outside of North America. And, if the new Brazilian oil field is any indication, there is more oil to be found off the Atlantic shelf.

Will current prices force new production?

Will demand for alternative energy sources be sustained?

Will demand for more fuel-efficient cars increase?

_________________
Don

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Sat 21 Jun 2008 - 13:15

Hiya Don

This is very topical in our house at the moment. There have been recent protests about our fuel prices and recenly my nephew went on the motorcycle protest in Manchester >>>LINK>>>..Ivor wanted to go but the motorbike is not on the road currently.
I have to pay around £130.00 a litre for diesel and i think thats about $2.55 a litre. Ivors currently converting the range rover to gas but even that is on the rise.
_________________
Maxine
Friendship~
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Mon 23 Jun 2008 - 15:05

Maxine,

I have not heard of converting diesel to gas. Although diesel has in recent years, become more costly than gas, it still provides better miles per gallon. The two types of conversion talked about here are converting cars to bio-fuel (85% ethanol/15% petroleum) and converting diesel to bio-diesel (processed cooking oil). Let me know how Ivor's conversion is going.

Auto companies (Ford and GM) have drastically cut back on SUVs and large pick-up trucks. They are scrambling to bring on-line hybrid and plug-in cars. You’d of thought they would have seen the light when the Toyota Piraeus became a best seller.

The current energy “crises” is in several ways similar to the 70’s oil crises. Politicians are flailing around to assign blame on anyone except themselves or their party. In truth, they (and we) are all at fault. Nothing has been done over the past 25 years. Unfortunately, some of our politicians (and presidential candidates) are proposing the type of actions taken in the 70’s, actions that resulted in double-digit inflation and long gas lines.
_________________
Don

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Tue 24 Jun 2008 - 10:20

Sorrrry Don I should have said the range rover is on petrol but yes he has looked into the kits for converting diesel as at the landrover shows they show kits for it and hes studyed the cars converted!

One the street where I live there are 2electric cars but they also have a noraml car as they only have a short range. I could not go up to Garstang and back in one of those to pick up Joanne from college.

Theres a garage in Manchester selling bio-diesel and its not that much cheaper at £1.20 PER LITRE.
_________________
Maxine
Friendship~
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Wed 25 Jun 2008 - 9:56

Don asked:-

'Will current prices force new production?

Will demand for alternative energy sources be sustained?

Will demand for more fuel-efficient cars increase?'

About new production: I don't really know much on this topic Don. I believe the oil round the British Isles is running out.

I do believe the demand for alternative energy sources will be sustained. It is wonderful to see what is now available and it is time more reserves were poured into developing and subsidising the technology.

Yes, the demand for more fuel efficient cars will increase. We all have better things to do with our money than put it into a car and burn it! We also want to breathe purer air - for many of us that is an essential.

We are slowly making headway with recycling, something which our ancestors did automatically. The war years taught my generation how to manage on very little and although I do NOT want to see those times return we need to learn from history.

An Australian I was speaking to recently was amazed at the way we are still wasting water in this country. He lives near Adelaide and apparently water is STRICTLY rationed there.

Well Don you did ask!! That is my little rant for the week!
cheers

Gillian
_________________
''What will survive of us is love.'' Philip Larkin

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Wed 25 Jun 2008 - 16:03

Gillian,

I think all three approaches are needed and are possible. What I see happening is advocates of one approach decrying any efforts applied to the other approaches. It would be refreshing to find someone who advocates a comprehensive program.

Recycling is practiced here but I am continually amazed by the amount of waste we generate. Maybe periods of hardship are needed to remind new generations of the benefits they enjoy.

As for water, that is a growing concern. Many parts of the world are dependent on water sources they don’t control. California for example is dependent on the Colorado River - two states removed. Iraq & Syria depend on water originating in Turkey. Shifting weather patterns (global warming- maybe, maybe not) is affecting water sources. Perhaps the real problem is growing demands on limited sources. That is true in the American Southwest.

It is interesting in getting thoughts from others on some of these topics.
_________________
Don

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Fri 27 Jun 2008 - 21:03

Hi Don and all.
I think this is a topic that appeals to all. At the moment I'm about to convert the petrol Audi to run on LPG. For a garage to do the work is approximately £1400.00 but I can buy the kit off them and do it myself for £600.00.
As Joanne does around 6000 miles a year it will take under a year to recoup the comversion costs and after that save approximately £600.00 per year.
The conversion is fairly straight forward and should be done in a day. At present there are around 1400 gas points in the UK. If gas is running low you can switch back to petrol with the flick of a dash mounted switch. Gas at present is around 57p.
Diesels can be converted to run on a 70% diesel, 30% gas mixture. You need the compressed diesel to ignite the gas.
The saving you make is in the pedal use, as with the induced gas with the diesel you don't have to press the pedal down as far to achieve the same speed. Therefore less diesel is used. I don't know how much the diesel kits are, sorry I haven't researched that yet.
As with everything in the UK we pay through the nose. The domestic fuel prices are set to rise 40% this winter, just in time for maximum demand. Then today we hear about the governments plans to reduce carbon emmissiions to set targets with radical new proposals. But as with all new introductions this will cost the tax payer. So on top of the forthcoming 40% we can look forward to lots more charges.
I agree with Gillian that something needs to be done, but not when we are paying to offset China, Pakistan, India and America's carbon bootprint. (sorry Don but America have continually refused to reduce emmissions and introduce legislation). Everyone in the Uk paying a fortune in tax is not going to create a clean air pocket over our country. If this is a global crisis then everyone pays. Lead by example doesn't cut it in this case.
Well I don't know about you but I feel a whole lot better.
Back to the red??? I think so.
Love to all, I'll have a V8.
Daz
xxx
_________________
My family are like stars in the night sky of my life.
Always there at the end of the day.
The light of their love forever constant as the Northern star.
Safely guiding me home.
Dreams are the realities of tomorrow.
Everyone is in tune with the spirits of their ancestors. Unfortunately some are tone deaf.
Copyright. Daz.2008.

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Fri 27 Jun 2008 - 21:53

Th scrap prices are high at the momnet as everythings going to china so its bound to have a knock on effect on prices else where. Ivor "found" the gas conversion for lees Landrover but my range rover had it before we got it but the owner took some parts off it so Iovrs learning how to put it back together and damaged the switch, so back to work tomorrow for one Wink

on his recycling hunt in a car scrap yard.
Yes Gillian we have become a throw away socitiy. People dont fix things any more. Ivor loves to tinker and fit things and hes passed some of that to Lee.
I have a multi fuel open fire but because I live a smokless area the council dont like me burning logs with is the eco way to burn fuel. I have to burn smokless coal which makes more smoke than logs. But the installer who check the instaltion says we can burn logs as long as they are less htan 36 percent humidity.
_________________
Maxine
Friendship~
Lots of people want to ride with you in the limo, but what you want is someone who will take the bus with you when the limo breaks down. - Oprah Winfrey

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Sat 28 Jun 2008 - 16:33

Note edited at 10:56

Daz,

Conversion to LPG sounds like a winner if, as you indicate, one drives enough miles to pay for it. I don’t think it would work here. I know of only one station selling LPG for cars. There are probably more, but they are few and far between.

You indicate gas is 57p. I assume this is per litter. That would make gas about £2 (or $4) per gallon. I think I missed something.

The price of gas here just dipped below the $4/gal at the local gas station but there are expectations it could go as high as $7/gal before this debacle is over. My short-term gas saving plan is to drive less and with a lighter foot on the pedal. Long-term plan is to buy a plug-in hybrid. Expect those to be on the market in 2 years.

Yes, America’s carbon “bootprint” is high compared to Europe. There are efforts underway to reduce it but one has to question if global warming is manmade or contributed to by mankind. At best worst, we are only a contributor. The earth has been through this cycle several times. I read somewhere recently winemaking was being re-introduced to England somewhere in Cornwall. Perhaps “Ruby Red” can be produced in Lancashire at some pointJ. Not to joke about emissions, emissions need to be reduced if for no other reason then for health purposes.

The offsetting of China, Pakistan, India and America's carbon bootprint is misleading in that the US’s emissions are on a decline whereas China’s and India’s face large projected increases. Another way to assess carbon bootprint is the GDP produced by one nation and consumed by others. (and on reflection our imports from China puts us deeper in the hole)

Many things need to be done and some are actually being considered. Leaders need to set aside partisan politics and work on solutions that are good for the future. As a “capitalist”, I advocate letting the market develop solutions. Not unbridled - the Government’s role is to establish and enforce standards; the market place will figure out how.

My favorite example of this is corn-based ethanol. Congress in its wisdom decided that ethanol is a solution to America’s oil imports so they mandated production of corn-based ethanol. Results are increased food prices, corn shortages, diversion of cropland to corn resulting in less wheat and soy. Ethanol production and transport costs are uneconomical without federal subsidies. Legislation resulting from the farm lobby placed exceptionally high tariffs on sugarcane based ethanol (which, subsidized by the petroleum industry, is being shipped to Europe as bio-diesel and undermining your markets – but this is another story). On the upside, and outside of the federal mandate, entrepreneurs are developing other sources for ethanol production that appear to be economically viable.

My simpleminded approach would have been to require gasoline sold in the US to contain x% ethanol by a given date and let the market figure out how to get there.

Interesting discussion and I find it educational to get other viewpoints.

Maxine,

Halve the fun and challenge is in fixing those things that others would toss. Over the years I have found few items I can’t disassemble, it’s the re-assembling that pose the challenge. And, it is surprising how many products have excess parts. Laughing

_________________
Don

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Sun 29 Jun 2008 - 17:33

One of the week's highlights is the Sunday Paper; specifically the comics. In today’s paper, the Opus strip fits nicely within this topic – “Gas/Petrol”.

_________________
Don

Subject: Re: The Beagle Log, 20 Jun 2008 – Gas/Petrol Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 22:17

Hi Don.
I meant 57p a litre in the UK as compared to petrol at 120p.
Daz
xxx
_________________
My family are like stars in the night sky of my life.
Always there at the end of the day.
The light of their love forever constant as the Northern star.
Safely guiding me home.
Dreams are the realities of tomorrow.
Everyone is in tune with the spirits of their ancestors. Unfortunately some are tone deaf.
Copyright. Daz.2008.